Chambumo-ron Lectures & Discussion 5th April 2025 - Session 2/4

I have the time which is annoying. Tells me how long I've been talking for but not what the actual time is. Okay. Should we start then? Okay. So, the historicity of revelation according to providential progression. It's a bit of a mouthful. Heavenly parent wishes to take on a human form create one great cosmic family and live together eternally experiencing the joy of true love. So look at this idea that God wants to take on a human form in a minute. Since we're living in the era of attending true parents of heaven, earth in humankind in substance, God's title should be heavenly parent. Though God is unchanging at the culmination of his providence, he's revealing himself as a heavenly parent.

So I said, it's not really new because throughout the Hebrew Bible, God has been revealing himself as a parent, father and mother. Okay, so let's have a look at this idea. God has no form. True, but wants no form. And so this is again from Deuteronomy. This is Moses speaking to the the Israelites before they went into Canaan. Remember the day you stood before the Lord your God at Horeb. So that's Mount Si at Horeb when he said to me, "Assemble the people before me to hear my words so that they may learn to revere me as long as they live in the land

and may teach them to their children." Then the Lord spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no form. There was only a voice. This is the idea that God is invisible. The invisible God that is able to form a relationship with every single human being. But God actually has no form. So that's why there no idols. That's why when um I can't remember what who it was now. Oh gosh. Anyway, the the Roman general who um laid siege to Jerusalem, Vespasian, I think it was, and

then he uh went into Jerusalem, then he went into the temple, then he went into the Holy of Holies, and he was shocked. Why? Because it was empty. And he said, "Where's the God that these Jews worship?" And so that's why Jews were accused in the ancient world of being atheists because they didn't have an idol or an image that they bowed down and worshiped. They're accused of being atheist because for Jews, God is invisible. God has no form. You heard the words saw no form. There's only a voice.

So where does this voice come from now? Where do we hear the voice of God now? Through our conscience. It's the whole point. It's through our conscience we can encounter, hear the verse, hear the voice of God. And then Moses goes on to say, "Since you saw no form when the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire, take care and watch yourselves closely so that you do not act corruptly by making an idol for yourselves in the form of any figure the likeness of male or female or like any animal on earth or any bird

that flies in the air." So again, God has no form. So this idea that God wants to have a form is not actually the biblical view. It's the pagan view because everybody else thinks God has a form. So the invisible God wants to form personal relationships with all his children through conversations through the conscience and the heart. So everybody then is able to have their own personal relationship with God. When God has a form that means it's you know a physical substance. And so God then is very close.

So again, this is again from Deuteronomy. Now what I'm commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. These are all the words he's giving. It's not up in heaven. So you have to ask who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it. In other words, we need a prophet. We need someone who's going to tell us what to do. Who God is speaking through. Nor is it beyond the sea that you have to ask, who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us

so we may obey it. No, the word is very near to you. It is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it. Yeah, we don't need. So that's why within Judaism there is no mediator. Every single human being forms their own personal relationship with God. There's no idea of a mediator. Yeah. No mediators, unnecessary. At Mount Si, God made a covenant with every single human being, all the Israelites who were there personally. They had no mediators. This idea of a mediator comes with a very pagan idea

uh which has been adopted into Christianity. And again, in the Quran, it's the same thing. It is we. Oh, this is God speaking up. It is we who created humankind and fully know what their souls whisper to them and we are closer to them than their jugular vein. So again the Muslim idea God is so close close to the jugular vein which is somewhere around here. You don't need to have a mediator. And so within Islam they have Muhammad but he's not a mediator. Yeah. So again this is that teaching. And

so again, as that person said earlier on in the lecture, Balam says to the king of Moab, so this is when the Israelites are on their way to Canaan. And the king of Moab's upset because they want to go through his land and the Moabites of course are descended from Lot. And so the king of Moab's got a sort of prophet inverted commas who goes around prophesying and uh what God wants is or is going to be outcome of battle. So the king of Moab said to Balac, "Please go and bless us and tell us we're going to be victorious. Arise Balac." Who's the name of the king? Balam says, "Arise Balac

and listen. Hear me son of Zippor. God is not human that he should lie. Not a human being that he should change his mind. Does he speak out and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill? I have received a command to bless. He has blessed and I cannot change it. So Balam then is saying as a prophet, God has told me and speaks through me to bless the Israelites and they're going to win the battle. I can't change it and say that God is going blessing you and you're going to win the battle. Yeah.

So again, God is not human. God is has no form. So one need to look then at cultures which do have God with a form human form. So one was a pharaoh was God. Not just a pharaoh there's lots of other people who are regarded as God. But this is the the Hebrews earliest experience of a human god was the pharaoh. And so of course when you look at Egypt, ancient Egypt, you had pyramid building for the pharaoh. So the pharaoh's god. So when the pharaoh died, they he had to have an extraordinary burial

so he could be preserved for ever in a pyramid. Nobody else had a pyramid except for the pharaoh. To all the Egyptians then they spent most a large part of their lives just building pyramids so that when the pharaoh died there'll be somewhere to bury him because he was God. But then it doesn't mean just that. It also means the whole society is a pyramid. You got the pharaoh who's God at the top. He married his sister. It's the way it worked then. And you got this incredibly structured society. A pyramid society as well. Not

that people are equal. People aren't equal when you have a human being who's God. You have one person who's at the top of the pyramid and other people who are different levels. And of course, this also means if if God has a form, it means whoever is physically closest to the pharaoh is closest to God. Yeah. It's all politics. Yeah. You got a king and somebody wants to go meet the king and they're all what you call gatekeepers. Yeah. And so what happened when Preston wanted to go and meet his dad, true father? Could he go

and meet his dad? there were gatekeepers who wouldn't let him connect. Just the way it works in this kind of pyramid hierarchical kind of society. People aren't equal. And so, of course, that you know means that the people who are closest to the pharaoh are the ones who got the most power because oh, I can go and see the pharaoh for breakfast tomorrow. I can bring, you know, find out what he thinks about this. So if you got a problem then and you want some problem solved then you go and see if you can connect to the person who's closest to the pharaoh or know somebody who's close to the pharaoh

and then to get the word there. That's just politics. Isn't that the way it works in the EU Julian when you were working there? Very much so. Very much so. It's just politics. Sheer politics. Somebody's got the power. That's effectively God. someone's got the power and there's a person who's his assistant or her assistant and etc etc. You got these psy circles of and you want to get there to get a decision made in your favor. You got to work your way through this cycle and the system and this hierarchy. That's the way it works in in the human world of politics when you have a human being who's got the one person who's got all the power.

So that's the pyramid view. That's uh God with a human form and so not so comfortable. Anyway, I don't like that the covenant of Mount Si was something completely different to what they had experienced in Egypt. Here, every single Israelite made a covenant with God. It's not that God just appeared to Moses and he brought the word. They all heard the voice of God through the fire. Every single Israelite, not just the men. and read that what it says there. It says the household, which means that the men

and the women and the children, everybody heard the voice of God speaking, everybody made a commitment, a promise to do that to to to listen to God and to follow the commandment. Every single human being, yeah, God was just Moses just brought it down, but they heard the voice of God. Every single individual. So that means every single individual had a personal relationship with God. Not just Moses. Moses wasn't the mediator in that sense at all. So this then is the idea when the covenant was made the blood was spread scattered over all the people

and on the altar. So this indicated that every individual was part of God's lineage. Not because I had a common ancestor, but because every single person, God was their parent of every single individual, they were all equal in front of God. Because every single one was a child of God. Yeah. And as said, there's no mediator between individuals and God. And so, people meet God through their conscience as Moses said and as Muhammad said in the in the Quran, God dwells to dwell in the family. And so that's why the first commandment as they left Egypt was observe the Sabbath. Yeah. God would dwell in in the family

and they'd all pray together as a family. They'd eat together. They drink together. They dance together, have fun together, play games together because that's where God wanted to be to have fun and joy uh in the family. It's what God's dream was. So Christianity then in that sense is a return to paganism. Jesus is God. Okay. And then you got the vicar of Christ. And then you got the cardinals and the archbishops and the bishops and the priests who are all mediators. And there's this whole hierarchy.

And each one has some authority to decide whether you go to heaven or you go to hell, whether you're going to be excommunicated or not excommunicated, you know, etc., etc. That's the way it is for much of Christian history until the reformation came. people could have their own personal relationship with God through faith be saved by God individually irrespective of and so we'll look at that later how Christianity then became this kind of you know through the interaction between early Christians particularly St. Paul

and the pagan ideas he came across he sort of translated he anyway created that kind of ideal. Okay. So heavenly parents ideal of creation God desire to become true parents who manifest through the visible substantial form of the first ancestors. Don't know biblical teaching. God is infinite and invisible. Every human being is finite. Every human being is an individual truth body and an individual expression of God. So no human being or couple can be a complete expression of God. It's impossible for any single individual or couple to completely express the divine

because God is infinite. God is infinitely complex. And so that's why every single individual that you meet is different. Yeah. We're created in the image of God. But it's not like a coin, you know, where you stamp a coin, create a coin or a stamp and everyone is identical. When God created us, he created us. Every single human being is individual and different. And that's just the way it is because each of us is able to express the nature, God, the divine nature in a different kind of way and have an own personal individual relationship with God. Yeah.

And I think that's the biblical understanding. Every human being is an individual truth, body and expression of God. So no human. So God is a parent then of every single human being. Every single human being is equal. So if you have kids, is every single child in your family identical? No. They're all different, aren't they? Every single one is different. Yeah. So should you love them in exactly the same way? Oh, we're going to get them exactly the same present. No. Oh, okay. This person's not more like this. This one's more like that.

And you just love them individually and you form that individual person kind of relationship. But within the family, every single child is equal, has equal value and is loved the same equally but differently. So that's uh I think it's good. Oh yeah, there's oh true mother talked about the dream of heavenly parent and the wish of God was to become the first ancestor by living with Adam and Eve as they became perfected and in that position God would be the first ancestor and be visible as a true parent of humanity. That's the principle of God's creation.

So the princip I mean normal understanding the principal view is that every single human being should get blessed by God in marriage and every single couple then should become a true parent not just one particular couple every single couple should become a true parent has a possibility and potential to become a true parent to their own children. The artistic motivation the creation of heavenly parent or by heavenly parents better way to say it was motivated by shim jong which is heart creation necessary

because of shim jung emotions standard stuff. The creation is essential because love must be accompanied by an object. Yep. You want an you know you want someone or something to love and take care of. Parent can only exist if there's a child. This is standard stuff through the through human beings. The ideal of creation can only be realized through humans who are connected by lineage to the heavenly parent. So I said every single individual biblical understanding is every single individual has their own personal relationship with God. Every single individual is part of God's lineage. It's not a pyramid. As a spiritual parent, God created human beings as physical children. He wanted to establish the kingdom of heaven on earth through direct descendants who inherited the heavenly lineage.

That would be every single individual would inherit the heavenly lineage. So when you die and go into the spiritual world, do you think there's a huge pyramid there or is everybody the same equal? Who do you think you'll meet when you go there? I I have no idea. I'm just making this up. Haven't been there yet. The one the one who love you closest relationship. Yeah. I mean it's like you know when we're here I mean you know there's an age difference. Yeah. But when you die when you die apparently you all look like you're 25 years old.

So if you see your parents or your great grand or your grandparents or your great-grandparents or your great great grandparents, is it like a sort of hierarchy or is it very very flat and you can meet all these people? What do you think? Surely if God created humans, it doesn't mean because if I create something, it doesn't come from my lineage. Mhm. Unless I give birth to them. Sure. God didn't give birth to us. Uhhuh. So, we can't say we're from his lineage. That's my understanding. We can say we're the children of God

because he created us. Yes. It's a metaphor. Metaphor. Yes. So we can't say that any one person like Jesus or true father or true mother have a direct lineage to God. Uhhuh. Sure. No, I agree with that. That's right. So for example, you know, personally I think when you go into I mean you know my kids are my kids but you know sorry it is possible to say that we have direct with God. God when God was showing that she was shown God creating a soul. Uhhuh. and she was taken in front of God and witnessed God creating a soul.

And basically what drove I can't detail but basically God took open his role and and he took a tiny little piece of his heart held it in his hand and after a woman handed it out to an angel to be handed out to the guardian angels. Mhm. And then the guardian was later went to a huge room where all the future baby born were there in spirit. And once the gardener met the new baby which I never had a soul before which with whom it was to work forever and ever. Then they were like an explosion of light

and joy and of love and everything and from then on the garden became linked and ever to that specific right and the soul was Yeah. That's a very traditional view that Yeah. God creates a soul. Yeah. That's what he witnessed. Yeah. Yeah. So do you I mean you know and sometimes people want their children to always be their children. I prefer my children to grow up so we can just interact as adults have adult conversations with each other. My mother they're always treating me as a child careful watching

but you know when you go into the spiritual world we're all adults in that sense and in that kind of conversation that kind of relationship. It's no longer when you go to the spiritual world, your parents won't be like a parent child relationship anymore. It'll be like that. I think that all it be much in that sense is much flatter. Everybody's there. You don't think of some so and so I treat this person as my grandfather anymore. I'm an adult. We're all adults. We'll just interact in that kind of way. That's what I think anyway

because they're all equal. So as a spiritual parent, God created human beings as physical children. As I said that, God created human beings. God didn't give birth to human beings. He wanted to establish the kingdom of heaven on earth through direct descendants who inherited the heavenly lineage, which is one of heart. It's a metaphor. However, due to the fall, heavenly parent had to go through providence of restoration to restore fallen human beings establish God's direct lineage. Okay. Okay. The completion of the universe must be a prerequisite. Heavenly parents ideal of creations predicated on the completion of the universe. I don't know what

that means. What does it mean to complete the universe? There lots of statements, but there's no reason or evidence to support a lot of these statements. You know, universe is always developing and always will develop, I would imagine. you know telescopes of the stars you see things are always changing even if it happened a billion years ago because it takes that long for the light to get here so don't know what that means every creature every creature must go through the growth period granted by heavenly parent in order to reach perfection yeah standard stuff this period of growth is essential for humans to fulfill their responsibility to resemble the creative nature of heavenly parent

and have dominion over all things. When an individual human fulfills their responsibilities during their growth period and reaches completion, it corresponds to the first blessing. Uh yeah. Well, the first blessing is about more than that. The first blessing is about mind body unity. So this is what it says in the principal book. God's first blessing is man's ability to perfect his character. Uh instead of having perfect, it should just be complete. You know can nobody can ever reach perfection. It's just impossible to to complete his character become a mature human being. By performing proper give

and take action routines mind and body uniting them centered on God of conscience the person person forms the four position foundation on the individual level becomes a temple of God. In that sense everyone becomes a temple of God part of God's lineage in that sense. When such perfected individuals become completely one with God in heart, they come to have God's character and constantly have God at the center of their thoughts and their actions. So I think that's a better explanation of what it says here. It doesn't mention the fact it's first blessing is about mind body at all. This talks about having dominion over things which is third blessing. Okay. Next it says embodying the true parents ideal through humans. The core of heavenly parents ideal of creation is the ideal of true parents. The ideal of true parents refers to the creator's ideal of creating everything based on the standard of true parents. A lot of these things are just I don't know what they mean to be honest. These statements True parents.

And when it says here true parents, does it mean true father and true mother as two individuals? Or is it talking about something more in the abstract? You know, not clear. True parents are composed of a man and woman. They can manifest when the direct children of this of the heavenly parent grow to maturity, marry and have children. They can manifest when direct children of the heavenly parent grow to maturity, marry and have children. I mean can that be any human being, man and woman? Hope so. The intangible heavenly parent wishes wished to embody a physical form through humans

and achieve a unified oneness through the give and take action of divided substantial beings male and female. Well, God didn't really want to have embody human physical form in that sense. As a result, he wanted to extend his love to infinity by giving birth to and raising children. Yeah. So, you know, if you I mean, if you just look at you when when we have children, every single child is different. But when you actually look at the number of eggs in a woman, I don't know how many thousands there are. There a lot, aren't there? There are a lot.

And you look at the number of sperms in a man, there's also a lot. And just particular egg and one particular sperm creates that particular DNA and child. But it could have been a million other possibilities actually. So the million millions of possibilities of different kinds of human beings just never were born. And that's reality. It's the way it is. There's infinite number of different possibilities, but most of them just never happen. It's interesting. So human beings are the substant of the embodiment of God's true love

and true parents ideal. So yeah, we're the embodiment of God's true love because God is our parent and the ideals to become like that. The ideal of true parents, a central thought that has been inherent in the creator from before the creation and continues unchanged to this day. So yeah, so God wants every single son and daughter to get married and have children and have their own lineage and become true parents. The realization that creator's ideal of true parents through a pair of human beings is the position where God

and humanity form a united body and is a central proven position of the cosmos. It is also the place where the intangible heavenly parent form the embodied trinity. Okay. I think I might be looking at Trinity later. I can't remember now. What's happened? Okay, we have to anyway realize the ideal of creation through completion of families. The ideal of heavenly parents creation is realized in the family and can be affected through love experienced in the family. Just as heavenly parent created human beings with the motive of heart or love, the purpose of human existence is the perfection of heart. In other words, the perfection of love. Human beings make it their goal to become mature lovers who resemble heavenly parent. The family is the key environment for human beings to nurture their love. It is within the home

that the basics of all types of human relationships experienced and all types of love can be experienced. This is the second blessing. I just need to go and correct my PowerPoint cuz it stopped when it shouldn't have the body. Where are we? Gosh. Oh. I want that. I want that. Sure. Maybe. Why is not doing what it's supposed to do? Set up. Show Okay, that should work. Sorry. Yeah, I found it. I had to change the other thing. Okay, this is the second blessing. So, let's see what it says. Second blessing is man's ability to have an ideal family. Adam

and Eve were to attain individual perfection and then become husband and wife and give birth to children with n natures of goodness, forming a sinless family. This God- centered family for physician foundation would have fulfilled God's second blessing. By becoming husband and wife on the foundation of having perfected themselves through God's vertical love, Adam and Eve would have completely realized God's horizontal love. From the viewpoint of heart, the fact that God allowed man to have children upon having fulfilled God's horizontal love is a great blessing. For by having children, man can feel the vertical love

that God feels towards man. So personally I think that's a much better explanation of what the second blessing is than what you find on this particular slide. The next slide heavenly parents ideal of creation is a foundation of the ideal world of creation. The ideal world of creation is a world based on the ideal of true parents. The official name of the ideal world of creation means a nation where two people become one. This means a place where the true parents ideal is realized in the starting point of the ideal world of creation. The ideal world of creation is realized based on the family

and then the family is expanded to become the global humanity. The family first achieves the ideal situation and by expanding it creates the ideal world. The ideal world of creation envisioned by heavenly parent is a world of interdependence, mutual prosperity and universally shared values where all of humanity regards God as the vertical true parent and the true parents of heaven, earth and humankind as the horizontal true parents living as one family under God. This means that it is a political

and social system that realizes the ideal of based on the expansion of an economy centered on one vision achieved through all of humanity aligning with God's heart and is a messianic kingdom based on the principles of interdependence, mutual prosperity and universally shared values. In the ideal world of creation, human beings establish dominion over the whole world. The third blessing is fully realized. Actually, this slide here is not about the third blessing. It's about the second blessing. Going from family, tribe race nation world cosmos expanding

that way. This is all an expansion of the second blessing about human relationships. But interdependence, mutual prosperity. It's all about human relationships. So these slides are not correct. It's this is all about the second blessing. It's not about the third blessing. So what is the third blessing then? The meaning of God's third blessing is a perfection of human beings sort of dominion over the natural world. So the way it is is there three fundamental this is just the traditional philosophical understanding. The way it is there are three fundamental relationships

that we have. A relationship between our mind and body, relationship we have with other human beings and relationship we have with the natural world. These are three different kinds of relationships. And if you can get these three different relationships working well, then we experience joy. We got good mind body unity. We enjoy dancing. We experience incredible joy. If we can't and our body dominates our mind, we become a drug addict or an alcoholic or something, then we're not happy. If we can get a good relationship with other human beings, with our parents, with our brothers

and sisters, with our husband and wife, with our friends, our next door neighbor, then again we experience joy and happiness through that. If we can't get a good relationship with our parents, our siblings, our husband and wife, next door neighbor, teacher, other school children, etc., then life is really miserable. And then have a good relationship with the natural world. If we can do that, we can make things and we experience incredible joy through playing the piano or through doing the gardening or through painting or all these different kinds of things. Again, we can experience incredible joy. This can go

then into manufacturing, running a business, making things, inventing things and making things. But if we can't get a good relationship with the natural world, then again, life is miserable. You know, we own a house, but then a hole appears in the roof. you know we don't fix it and of course it all falls down or we can't manage our finances etc etc you become bankrupt so that's about that kind of relationship so this is the third blessing is about dominion over the natural world it's not about relationship

so for whatever reason the chong lectures contain mistakes you flag this up to somebody sorry can you flag this up to somebody in Korea I've done that I send I send this stuff to Julian and I hope he passes it on but um yeah I don't know the natural world is an object partner which exhibits human internal nature and external form in diverse ways everything you know an ant's got also got a mind body kind of thing going on Yeah. Hence human ideal human beings receive stimulation from the world of nature. Yeah. You go out

and see a daffodil and flowers etc. You feel stimulate feel wow beautiful in extraordinary beauty in the world of nature. Again but it's all about nature sensing their own internal nature and external form displayed through the creation. They feel immense joy. God also delights when he experiences the stimulation of his original internal nature and external external form from the universe. This is possible when it becomes his third object partner through harmonious union of human beings and the natural world.

So what did God tell Adam to do? Dominion. And he told him to do the gardening. And also name all the animals. Name all the animals. Have that kind of dominion which means Yeah. Yeah. Name all the animals. But sense of ownership and taking care of. You have someone who has a name, you're more likely to take an interest in and take care of it. But also he told him, I can't didn't say exactly use the word gardening, but also tilling the soil and various things. They're basically doing the gardening, you know.

And then through that you experience incredible joy when you plant all these bulbs and a year later start coming up that kind of joy. So that's the third blessing. There's a lot of lack of clarity about the fundamentals to be honest in these lectures. The dream of heavenly parent is to experience joy through love eternally together by engarding the true parents and forming a great family of humankind. Heavenly parent is the ultimate identity God intended to fulfill. Since the Chongok era after the foundation day is a time of living with the true parents of heaven, earth

and humankind as a substantial embodiment of ultimate oneness, addressing God as the heavenly parent aligns more with the spirit of Chonguk era. God is an unchanging God, but he reveals himself as heavenly parent in the Omega and stage of the providence. really did God not reveal himself as a heavenly parent until we got to the end of God's providence which is now or did God reveal himself as a parent 600 well 4,000 years ago Abraham time so it's interesting you they get these kind of statements in the in these lectures

but they're not actually connected to reality or what I would say are connected to truth. Yeah, these are not true statements. Anyway, there you go. So, that's the end of that particular lecture. That's the end of lecture two. Took us three days to get there. So, everybody else just read out the bullet points. I don't do that. So, where are we time wise? 12:30. So, should we take a lunch now or in a bit later? We could do lunch now. Lunch now. And then I'll we'll move on to lecture number three. Anyway, thank you all very much

and uh enjoy your lunch. I hope you all brought some. Um we'll do an hour and come back at 1:30. Yep, that's good. Okay. And uh can't go into the cafe downstairs, but uh we there's a table here. We can sit around the table and uh those online. See you later. The way I could understand revealing himself is more that he can reveal himself in a closer way. God can be very present close to us. We can have a personal very direct relationship with God. That's more that aspect maybe not All the